hemo-swords.jpgI wont be posting (or playing) much for the rest of this week, mostly because of the holiday. We had a focused busy day today in an effort to get as much done as possible so we could all get a head start on the long weekend. Gotta love a boss who, while competant and fair, still holds the air of a teenager (we had a team lunch a few weeks ago, complete with a fun little ice breaker survey, to which he answered the question “what would be your dream job?” with “doing nothing”).

Anyway, I took the advice I got yesterday from a few commenters and did some of my own calculations. Once I get the season 2 swords (should only take a few more weeks), I will switch to a build more like this, which Feist-Mok suggested. After looking at my recount data (pictured below, Akil’zon kill) from last night’s ZA run, I realized that 2/2 weapon expertise would be a better investment of points than 5/5 [weapon] spec and 1/1 prep. You can see the numbers pretty clearly.

eaglerecountmelee.jpg eaglerecounthemo.jpg

10 less dodges for melee at an average hit of 369 = 3690. 3 less dodges of hemo at an average hit of 663 = 1989. That totals 5679 pts of damage I could have had with 2/2 weapon expertise. Not to mention that those 3 hemo dodges meant 3 times I wasted energy failing to put a debuff on the boss, which means overall raid damage lost. Consider it’s worth 10 charges, and costs 35 energy. 40 charges missed (including the one parry). Up to 36 points of raid damage per. Add that together with the damage I missed out on, and I cost the raid just over 7k damage for that fight. Akil’zon only has about 1.3 million hitpoints, so the disparity is minor: .55%. But still, damage is damage.


Finally, this was a big surprise to me. Not so much me being second to BRK, as I am quite used to that, but rather my being able to maintain a 778 dps for a fight where there is quite a bit of running around. Once I get more comfortable with the rotations and energy management, I’m pretty confident I’ll be able to break pretty well into the 800’s.


14 Responses to Quickly

  1. tirah says:

    hey doom, some quick thoughts. i was about to write a post about how little damage you’d gain by switching spec, before i realized you can’t prep + blade flurry (smooth!). either way, i was looking over your reasoning for pulling a point out of sword spec and prep for the 2/2 weapon expertise, and I’m still not sure the improvement will be as big as you think. minor use of math coming up, let me make clear that i’m far from expert at theorycrafting, so take these numbers as…estimates. moving on.

    as you said, the damage you’ll gain from not missing so much works out to ~7k. the damage you’ll lose, though, from losing your 5/5 sword spec might make up for some of that, though.

    assumption: the damage you gain from the 1% greater sword proc chance roughly equates to +1% damage from sword attacks over a long boss fight (I seem to recall a controversy about whether the proc reset the swing timer? Don’t know how that worked out. Let me restate: estimates). So:

    .01 * (white damage + hemo damage + blade flurry damage)
    = .01 * (203549 + 88955 + 2204)
    = just about 3k damage

    this was gonna be there part about the damage you gain from being able to prep + blade flurry. that was a lie.

    admittedly, I didn’t just break your logic. Your new spec still looks like it’ll pan out with ~4k more damage. I’d still recommend taking 5/5 sword spec and prep though, because prep makes such a great “oh shit” button. In 75% of fights you’ll be looking at your prep button wondering what a waste of a talent point it was, but when you need to an evasion to save your ass after you pull aggro, a sprint to save your ass after you’ve been CC’ed, or a vanish to just save your ass from a repair bill, it seems like prep might do you and your raid more favors than 4k damage will.

  2. doomilias says:

    some good points raised. for as much as i enjoy trying to calculate everything out, i actually prefer game-tested results. i am going to stick with the build i have currently until i am able to get a couple of swords. at that point ill switch over.

  3. Feist-Mok says:

    Hey! Thats my build! more or less.

    A few thoughts though:

    Why no Dirty Tricks? It’s freakingoverpowered when you can sap a hunter from OUTSIDE OF HIS FLARE, then stunlock and burn down the pet and then you are one on one at melee ranged with the poor fool.

    2/3 setup without 5/5 lightning reflexes is kinda pointless – the 2 synergize REAL nice. Without both, the only ral benefit setup gives you is a free CP or too when you cloak through a voidreaver pounding. the points are better spent on 3.5 minute vanish IMO. But really, it’s all just filler so w/e.

    If’n y’want I’ll try to get you a WWS from the next raid I run. It’ll probably be a Leo/Morogrim/Karathress/Ifwe’reluckyladyvashj/ rnu through SSC tonite – let y’see hemo swords in action 😀

  4. doomilias says:

    yessir. please do. as i have somewhat hinted at, i did no REAL thinking when i put this spec together. i was just so happy to finally get a weapon drop from ZA (which im like, eh about now that i think about swords), that i just went and respecced real quick to get hemo and try it out. im 100% experimental phase at this point.

    you make some very good points, though, about dirty tricks. after never using feint anyway (no need with salv), i feel like i wasted 2 points for improving it. but ah well. im not set at all on the spec i have right now.

    keep the input coming!

  5. Feist-Mok says:

    I took imp feint – feint is worthless, but 2% reduced chance to be crit is pretty nice.

  6. megan says:


    Welcome to the Dark Side!

  7. Hyouzan says:

    Ok this is off topic but, I am currently leveling the hell out of my baby rogue when I’m not raiding.

    I have read alot about leveling and gearing up in Pre-BC content. With the arrival of patch 2.3 and the new leveling love, do you think it’s worth me spending time in the instances trying to get that better gear? I know I will get xp either way but with my luck I will already have out leveled the weapon by the time it drops?

  8. doomilias says:

    HEMO swords!! you will NEVER see me going full combat swords. NEVEEEEEEERRRRRRRRrrr…

    im leveling my own alt atm, a hunter. my advice? skip the instances unless there is something you REALLY want. make a mad dash to 58 and hit hellfire peninsula. buy new gear every 2 or 3 levels, unless you find a super nice deal on a rare blue. but also dont bother spending more than 5-6 gold per piece, and only if its upgrading your stats by >=2 than the piece it is replacing. as a rogue, go LW/skinning and just make yourself new gear as you level…youll have more leather than you know what to do with. that also means that once you hit 70, youll be able to make yourself an epic set in no time.

    just my advice! im sure other people have just as good opinions.

  9. hey i am new to this blog and i am trying to get every WoWer that is on here and damn good job on the dps.here is my link

  10. Elistana says:

    I’ve seen several similar build types, but I’d almost rather see a point loss on the assassination tree for that extra sword spec point. On raid fights being so long, murder is truly going to get it’s most use, but I wonder whether the extra sword swings will outweigh the 1% dmg. I haven’t done any testing on it, but maybe you have. Regardless, it sounds pretty solid.

  11. feist says:

    @Elistana dropping a point from assassination is a horrid idea — point for point relentless strikes is the single highest dps talent in any tree for any rogue. It returns more energy than combat potency on any fight of length and does so with less risk of a streak of bad procs. And there is no way to get to relentless strikes without either 1) maxing ruthlessness and murder or 2) being stupid and getting imp backstab and imp evisc in a raid build that isn’t using daggers.

    Also, are you so sure about being second to BRK? Looks like youcleaned his clock. Recounts pet merging behavior is weird — it adds the pets damage to the owners __and then lists the pets damage separately anyway__ I.e. If you add those two together, you’re counting Hobbes twice. This of course assumes you run w/ pets merged.

  12. doomilias says:

    nope, we run with pets unmerged. its brk’s preference.

    and yes, no way im giving up that point in relentless strikes.

  13. Dankh says:

    I haven’t quite read through the comments, but taking a quick glance at your talents I think you might be gimping yourself. I could be wrong, but if you add prep and AR into your build, you will be bursting with amazing goodiness. Fill out the rest of your sword spec points too!!!

    Also think about getting dirty tricks, but I see your talents are really geared towards PVE, rather than pvp. So maybe sticking to imp feint is good if you raid a lot.

  14. Feist-Mok says:

    Getting AR and Prep means giving up the 11 points in assassination.

    There is no talent anywhere in any tree worth that.

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